My post “The Truths behind Homosexuality” has drawn some interesting comments and also a response post from Indi titled “For the Gayness” which has a couple of interesting facts and comments too. So I decided to make another post on this controversial subject.
“Homosexual people are slowly and rightly gaining the rights and respect they deserve. I cheer every time they get marriage rights in Europe, Canada and he States because that means society is coming closer to supporting and cultivating those relationships, which in turn make society stronger.“
I agree that certain nations are giving recognition to same sex marriages. But will this make society stronger? Many homosexual couples adopt children. A child is brought up with the love and care of a mother and father who equally contribute to the upbringing of the child, what happens when one is missing and you get two of one kind. There will definitely be an imbalance in the care that the child is receiving. Alright there are single parent families where the mother or father is the one who is solely taking care of the child and generally that one person fits both roles, some do it well and some make a mess of it. But in same sex marriages it is not like that, just imagine two men (or women for that matter) are married and one is trying to play father and the other play mother, now how effective will that be? There may be psychological programs that help these homosexual couples in bringing up children but then again will it ever replace the real thing?
“There is also significant homosexual behavior in animals, especially our close cousins the Bonobo chimpanzees.“
Give me a break how can we compare animal behavior with humans. Yeah I know that there some people who behave like animals but isn’t trying to find homosexual animals going a bit too far. Animals care for their young for a shorter time than humans and have a far less social structure. Studying animal behavior has greatly benefited humans but looking for homosexual animals to justify human misbehavior is nonsense. In that case one can justify the fact that some parents kill their own children just because some animals eat their own young. Why prosecute the parents since animals do the same thing?
So psychology does not list homosexuality as a mental disease. What effect has modern psychology had on people. Has it made their lives better? Has it improved human behavior? Just because psychology say so, does not always have to be the norm. Hooker has done some tests and confirmed that homosexuality is not a clinical condition and other researchers have also done some tests and have had results that agree with her. Every theory that humans have done have had some controversies down the line and in a few years time someone will find something totally opposite. Then what happens? Are our whole lives and society structure based on unstable theories? There are some psychologists who claim that people commit murder out of a psychological condition then does it make it less of a crime. Are we to accept murder because it is a psychological condition?
The effect of homosexual couples on soceity is not known yet. What influence will they have on the children that they adopt and the people around them? What about the people who see this and are drawn into homosexuality instead of the norm?
It is impossible to prove 100% that people are born homosexuals. There have been people who have been born with some sort of brain disorder that affects their behavior and are undergoing treatment. If we are to apply the “born that way” attitude then we should not treat these people.
Homosexuality is the choice that a person makes. Some may argue that it is their choice, so let them be as they are. Well a person addicted to drugs also did so by choice, so do we let them to remain as drug addicts or do we try to put them in a facility to correct their behavior.
We should question ourselves whether it is the correct choice that is being made? Are we turning a blind eye and supporting a choice which will damage the structure of society as a whole.
Like I said in my previous post, I am not a hater of homosexuals but I do not agree that this is something that one is born with. We should help these people come out of this situation and keep them from making the wrong choice.
Nov 15, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Mr T. S. Lankan,
if you, or someone like you get ’something’ out of being with a woman and if someone else would get that same ’something’ being with a man. Who the eff are you to say its wrong? and worse yet, to say its a mental disorder?
would you make same conclusion about people who doesnt share your taste of say, music?
Nov 15, 2006 at 5:35 pm
Actually, people who have bad taste in music MUST be sent to the special re-education camps.
Nov 15, 2006 at 8:06 pm
This video may help readers get a more balanced sense of the debate…:
http://www.commonsense.wnymedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=321&Itemid=42
Nov 15, 2006 at 10:48 pm
You really are a True Sri Lankan.
Can’t think outside your own little world. Can’t accept anything different. Can’t accept change. Can’t accept people who are different to you.
Can’t understand why this country is so backwards, when it is full of True Sri Lankans like you.
Nov 15, 2006 at 11:08 pm
Who are you to assume that a hetero marriage is always good for a child? I know many people who are totally screwed up thanks to their (hetero) parents.
I don’t know any kids from gay parents, but I’ll bet that many children with gay parents are more normal and well-adjusted than kids from straight parents.
Like you for example.
Nov 16, 2006 at 2:12 am
That’s a pretty damn weak argument…as Mad Max says hetero marriages produce a bucketload of screwed up kids. Single parents produce good kids, speaking from experience here. What exactly is the ‘real thing’ if that is love, attention and stability how is it different if its from a man & woman, a man or woman by themselves or a same sex couple. Please do elaborate?
I think the animal argument is invoked in response to the argument against homosexualism that is usually invoked by conservatives, ie. that it serves no biological function thus it is ‘unnatural’…and should not be found in ‘nature’…but it is found in nature (hell I’ve seen homo elephants), ergo it is not ‘unnatural.’
Also the discrediting psychology is a pretty poor move as well, though it may get you brownie points with Tom Cruise. “There are some psychologists who claim that people commit murder out of a psychological condition then does it make it less of a crime” – in fact if someone who is clinically insane commits a murder they get treatment, not freedom, not a dank dark cell with a big hairy guy called Betsy, but treatment.
“The effect of homosexual couples on soceity is not known yet.” – the effect of mixed race, mixed religion, white, black, purple couples on society is not known, as far as I know noone has quantified the ‘effect’ of hetero couples on society, so what exactly is your point here?
How do you decide its the wrong choice? Let people make arbitrary decisions like that and soon being an atheist, christian, buddhist could be inferred as being the wrong choice by people. Grow up man, open your eyes, widen your horizons a bit…
Nov 16, 2006 at 3:45 am
T-SL. I didn’t post any serious comments on your last post. But I thought I should post something here because you got so many things wrong. You did not born this way, you choose to be this way. I’m not spreading hearted toward homophobics. But I’m just saying we should help you with your issues.
We are not that ignorant to judge you for whom you are. It is good to have deferent views, deferent life styles and deferent tastes. Good on you.
Just kidding
//just imagine two men (or women for that matter) are married and one is trying to play father and the other play mother, now how effective will that be?//
Stop imagining. Talk to them. See how they live. Try to understand first of all before judge them. I have seen homosexual couple father children very effectively. But I understand they are facing problems from the society because there are some people like ‘you’ who thinks, only they have whole authority to ‘moral’ and ‘goodness’. But we all have problems one way or another.
//Give me a break how can we compare animal behavior with humans.//
Humans are animals. We call them HomoSapiens. You have freedom to live in dark-ages – if you choose to be that way (not because you born that way). But Please do not bring rest of us also in to dark ages.
//What effect has modern psychology had on people. Has it made their lives better?//
Yes indeed. People get sick physically and mentally. When we have physiological problems we get help form psychologists. Not when we are not.
// The effect of homosexual couples on soceity is not known yet.//
If the effect is not known yet, then why bother? Why you pre-judge them? Why don’t you wait till you find the effect? May it is deferent from what you imagining.
//It is impossible to prove 100% that people are born homosexuals.//
Why? Why we have to prove that? What they have done to you or me? I’m not offended they have good relationships. Good on them.
// We should question ourselves whether it is the correct choice that is being made?// Yes. People should question themselves, not others.
I always admire the line “Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” – You are free to follow it too. (Don’t worry.. I won’t question you if you do not believe the same thing I believe)
// Well a person addicted to drugs also did so by choice, so do we let them to remain as drug addicts or do we try to put them in a facility to correct their behavior.//
Do not bring ‘drug addicted’ crap. Homosexual are not addicted to anything. Even they addicted to something, we do not have to rehabilitate every addiction. Pringles is addictive (“once you pop, you can’t stop”). But we don’t rehabilitate Pringles addiction. Do we?
//Are we turning a blind eye and supporting a choice which will damage the structure of society as a whole.//
Do you know what the structure of the society is? Human society does not based on Monogamy, Marriage neither fairytales. I suggest you to read some Desmond Morris (if you believe in science, evaluation, mobile phone, internet, kind of things).
Bottom line is I am not a hater of homophobics but I do not agree that this is something that one is born with. But everyone have right to have their own opinion as long as they do not condemn other’s freedom. Good discussion.
Nov 16, 2006 at 6:37 am
Well, I’m sure any child who grows up in a same sex household will have gender identity problems later in life. It’s a common sense that same sex couples are more promiscuous and hardly ever monogomous, characteristics that are frowned upon in an opposite sex relationship.
I do not have any issues with homosexual relationships. But growing up in a same sex nuclear “family” would be substantially different than growing up in a normal family.
Just imagine a child coming to his PTA meeting with his dad and his husband. What would he have to go through at school in a society. We are a society that exalts masculinity.
Nov 16, 2006 at 6:39 am
While same sex love, intercourse and relationships may very well be natural and normal, a same sex family is not.
Nov 16, 2006 at 7:53 am
//gender identity problems later in life.//
My mother had a better job than my father, she bring most of the income to family. She spends most of her time with her work and my father often did cooking and cleaning since he had free time. What is the gender identity?
// Just imagine a child coming to his PTA meeting with his dad and his husband.//
Yes. It is a bad thing the society offended by differences. Black mother and white father in PTA meeting, used to be the same. I can remember there was a child; his father was short, short like a midget. He never came to school because others laugh at the kid. But people are getting more tolerance toward differences.
//same sex nuclear “family” would be substantially different than growing up in a normal family//
I rather put this – growing up in a loving family (normal family you may say) is better than growing up in a broken family.
Nov 16, 2006 at 11:38 am
just mal : ’same sex couples are more promiscuous and hardly ever monogomous’ – really? i know many same sex couples who have lasted much much longer than some heterosexual couples have. i know women who’ve been together for over 50 years.
i dont think you can out any of this in a box, just like that. sometimes same sex couples stay together for longer on average than heterosexual couples do, sometimes not, sometimes they bring up perfectly healthy children, sometimes perhaps they don’t.
they are all complex issues and we should accept that, even if we do not understand it, or cannot grasp it scientifically.
Nov 16, 2006 at 11:55 am
I’m seriously appaulled by your lack of knowledge and understanding. Psychology never helped anyone? Are you a moron? Psychology has helped us to diagnose mental disorders, treat people with psychological problems. Without it we would still not be able to treat schizophrenics, etc.
It really is shameful that a people like you actually think that way-wipe off your self-satisfied smirk and holier-than-thou attitude and open your mind up. Your attitude is akin to those who didn’t want blacks riding in the front of the bus back in the 60s.
Nov 16, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Deanne
Music and Same Sex Relationships do not fall in the same category
Anon
Change that is detrimental and brings down the moral values is not wanted. I accept change that will not degrade society.
Mad Max & N
Children need the love of a father and mother to grow up. Sadly like you say even hetro couples children have messed up. A child from a homo marriage will view the world from a different angle. The homo relationship is not normal it is not good for them to raise children.
Sam
Thanks for accepting my different views.
Just Mal
I agree that children of same of couples will have gender identity problems.
Arun
I agree with you that Psychology has helped in certain instances but comparing using psychology to justify homosexual relationships is unwanted.
Nov 16, 2006 at 1:12 pm
My apologies to the people whose comments have not been posted. They have been identified as spam comments. Even Indi’s comment to my previous post has been identified as spam.
I corrected it so I hope that it works out ok.
Nov 16, 2006 at 1:39 pm
? its a choice.
Nov 16, 2006 at 7:20 pm
“Change that is detrimental and brings down the moral values is not wanted. I accept change that will not degrade society.”
Who are you to define what is a degradation of society? God? Just because you see it as a degradation doesn’t mean it is so. I think it’s an uplifting of society when people show more tolerance to those who are different to them. Homophobia is similar in a way to racism, and anyone who has been on the receiving end of harsh racism will know it’s not nice. If someone is different to you, don’t attack them for it. Respect their right to live in freedom, the same freedom that you enjoy.
As some people said above, your views are very similar to racist views. Dislike of a group of people due to lack of understanding.
“Children need the love of a father and mother to grow up. Sadly like you say even hetro couples children have messed up. A child from a homo marriage will view the world from a different angle. The homo relationship is not normal it is not good for them to raise children.”
Again, who can define what is “normal”? Just because something has been done one way for a long time does not make it right. People thought the world was flat for a long time. Whites treated blacks as slaves for a long time. Nothing is “normal” in this world, because the world is constantly changing. You only think a father and mother are “normal” because you were brought up that way. You are conditioned to believe that. A child brought up by homosexual parents will be conditioned (and taught) to respect and love people of all sexualities, based on their personality, and not their sexual preference. Wouldn’t the world be a better place if all children were taught to love all kinds of people regardless of differences?
Someone said the most correct thing in one comment: don’t judge without understanding. Before you say gays are wrong, get to know them, see how they raise their children, and learn more about them first-hand. Then and only then will you be in a position to say whether you think they are wrong or right. You’re like the proverbial guy who judges a book by its cover. It looks scary and different, so you say it’s bad. But have you taken the time to look deeper into it?
You need to do a lot more thinking about why the world is the sad and sorry place it is, with so much fighting and killing and sadness. All the problems in the world basically boil down to your same argument – “they are different to us so I don’t like them.”
Try to love more, and hate less. The world could do with a lot less hate. Understand that each human being is special, and should be able to do whatever they want to do, as long as they aren’t hurting anyone else. Once you accept that, you will see life in a very different way…
Nov 16, 2006 at 7:24 pm
Arun is confusing psychology with psychiatry. I am also appalled at his inability to spell appalled, truly appalling.
How come you haven’t addressed Sam’s point to Just Mal about the gender identity question reagarding what happened when his Grandma brought in more money that his Grandpa? For example, both my parents are professionals who have strong identities. They wont take any nonsense from anyone and I don’t think it would have affected my world perspective if they were both male or female.
At the end of the day what affects your perspective in your upbringing is probably going to be your parents’ personality traits, not their sexual traits. Who cares if you’re gay or straight as long as you’re a well adjusted individual who can function with no problems in society? I guess it would only be people who did not want society to be well adjusted, like anarchists, communists, or terrorist? Are you a terrorist? Ergo, by not condoning homosexuality you are a terrorist.
Nov 16, 2006 at 9:27 pm
-I accept change that will not degrade society-
change that will not DEGRADE society?
wake up, whoever you are. this change has and is taking place, and so far it does not seem to be the reason that society has fallen to degradation. we’re constantly facing war, poverty, hunger, global warming, corruption and violence and THIS is why society is being degraded. what does homosexuality have to do with anything? we’re killing each other daily and letting people take away from us the one thing that was once so important; our freedom from fear. and you’re worried that GAYS are wrecking the world? hold up, dude. the world is being wrecked by ALL OF US, gay or straight. being gay has nothing to do with someone’s morals or their perception or compassion. it doesn’t hold someone back from killing, but nor does it hold someone back from kindness.
like i said, its changing; the world, constantly, always. many years ago whites thought blacks were inferior, men thought women were inferior, hitler thought jews were chaff and straights thought gays were abnormal. we have come such a long way since then, and still we are stuck in rut. despite what a ‘modern’ world we claim to live in, what a ‘civilized’ species we claim to be and what a ‘progessive’ generation we say we are, we’re still unable to cope with or accept things that we do not understand. we’re threatened by things that are different and afraid of people who aren’t like us.
YOU are the one that needs help, fellow blogger. YOU are the one we should feel sorry for and try to help. YOU are the one we need to help lead a normal life. YOU are the one that’s warped. its YOUR opinions of righteousness and attitudes superiority that degrades society ultimately. its YOUR bigotry that leads to chaos and hurt and regression, as opposed to progression.
here we are, trying so hard to build a world where people understand and accept each other, or atleast want to. and there’s still so many of you, breaking it down bit by bit, what generations have strived to built, what thousands have fought to achieve. a legacy of evoloution and development is falling to pieces because of people like you. the more some people try to take 2 steps forward, the more there’s enough people to pull them 3 steps backward.
homosexuals don’t need treatment and they certainly don’t need your sympathy. you’re better off hating them than feeling sorry for them because atleast that way, it means you are accepting who they are. you don’t need to SAVE them, you don’t need to save anyone but yourself. we have all made our own choices and we don’t need to be rescued by anyone for the choices we have made.
be it genetic or optional, either way homosexuality gives you no reason to not accept it. if it is genetic and more biolgical than we think, then i hope you understand that that’s just the way some people are; it’s like being born asian or black, we didn’t choose it and we shouldn’t be crucified for the way it turned out. if it is a choice someone makes, no matter at what point in their lives, then so be it. that’s all the more reason to respect someone’s privacy and preference, more reason to respect someone’s personality and thus, their choices. after all, when did we lose the right to choose?
Nov 16, 2006 at 10:07 pm
[...] it seems that no matter how many people i’ve met, there will always be those that just shock me. many say that this post (and this one, i can’t tell which is worse) shouldn’t be all that shocking, but i’m simply hysterical with just that : shock. [...]
Nov 17, 2006 at 9:13 am
Children need the love of a father and mother to grow up – I think you forgot to address single parent families…or was that just selective blindness?
Nov 19, 2006 at 3:37 am
Perhaps, in order to upgrade society for the better, we need to get rid of people like you, who have these holier-than-thou attitudes that keep stirring up shit that constantly have us stuck in a rut of prejudice that prevents us from true progression. How about that?
Mar 17, 2009 at 4:15 am
Fact: Man + Woman = Reproduction of a Human
Fact: Woman + Woman = No Reproduction
Fact: Man + Man = No Reproduction
And you say this perversion is natural? According to what logic?
Fact: There is an increased risk of cancer for gay men: http://www.cancer.org/downloads/com/gay%20men%20cf%20brochure.pdf
Mar 17, 2009 at 4:21 am
I remember my childhood days in the early ’70s when my friends and I would get together in their basement and play “house.” I would be the daddy and my friend Lynn would be the mommy. Her younger sister Claire would be our little girl. A 4 foot by 4 foot miniature vinyl Barbie playhouse was our “home sweet home.” It was a great time of make believe and pretend, fantasizing what the “real thing” would be like one day. Deep down, I really had a secret crush on Lynn and loved playing house with her, more than she ever knew. Besides, it took me away from the unstable family life I had at home of a real mommy and daddy who both drank and fought much of the time.
Many years later as an adult in the early ’90s, I remember lying in bed together with my partner on a Tuesday night. Tuesday night was TV night for us. We’d both come home from work and after dinner, clean up and put on a pot of coffee. Then we would get into some comfy T-shirts and cuddle up with each other as we watched “Roseanne” and our other favorite shows. After the 11 o’clock news, we’d do some sit-ups, turn off the lights and peacefully fall asleep in each other’s arms. I clearly remember listening to the sounds of the crickets with a cool breeze blowing through our slightly opened windows. Our bedroom was filled with the romantic pale light of the moon and the star-studded New England night sky.
As I look back at that time in my life, I remember exactly how I felt. We had it all. We were on top of the world. A beautiful home, a dog, two cats, great friends and a loving, long-term, committed “storybook” relationship. No doubt, we were going to be partners for life. OK, so it wasn’t exactly as I pictured it years earlier with Lynn and Claire, but hey, he was the man of my dreams.
As I sit here now typing, burning the midnight oil, I hear those crickets outside my window. I can see that same pale moon resting in that same star-filled New England sky. My two little children are both fast asleep after daddy prayed with them and read them “Goldilocks and the Three Bears.” My beautiful wife also is sleeping tranquilly after reading her Bible and saying her prayers. She prays on her knees every night for our family members, as well as countless other families and friends across the country whose loved ones are entrapped in the homosexual lifestyle.
As I look back on all those years of Tuesday TV nights with my boyfriend, I realize the homosexual lifestyle was a deceitful counterfeit of the “real” thing. My partner and I were like the children in my childhood of days gone by. We were two men who thought we had the world in the palm of our hands – when in fact, we had nothing at all. We were two lost souls, living in a world of make believe – two emotionally hurting boys playing house, desperately clinging onto each other night after night, week after week, year after year.
As homosexual men and women across the country strive for their “special rights,” civil unions and ultimately same-sex marriages, I can attest firsthand these individuals are making every attempt to resolve their inner homosexual conflict. These are feelings, thoughts and actions most have had ever since childhood. Many have hidden and suppressed their homosexual feelings for so long, until they finally gave in and “came out” to the world. Their inner struggle for self-acceptance has turned into a misguided outward struggle for civil rights. With each battle won on local, state and federal levels, their pillage is America’s acceptance and tolerance. While they fill their storehouses with their vain plunder, they tirelessly continue their unending life-long search for their “holy grail”: self-acceptance. No matter how hard they search or how long they try, I’m afraid it is something that will never be found.
Homosexuality is clearly an outward expression of things going on much deeper in a person – issues for many originating back to their childhood.
For homosexual men, in most all cases it has everything to do with a lack of relationship with the father. For women, the problem can rest with the mother and/or father or another male figure. For some, molestation or a premature sexual experience was the lead in to the homosexual lifestyle. Whatever the factors may have been to drive someone down that unwanted homosexual path, we must remember one thing: No one was born homosexual. To state such a fact is a tragedy, as well as cop out.
Just as no one is born an alcoholic or a drug addict, the same must be said of the homosexual. “Issues” are what bring a person down these lonely, painful paths – issues when finally dealt with will allow the person to come out of their destructive behavior. You don’t need to be a psychologist to figure this one out.
In 1992, I became a Christian, accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. When I fully understood the forgiveness God extended to me through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, I realized the life-changing power that lay within this efficacious act. I knew that the forgiveness that was so graciously given to me now needed to be extended by me to someone else who needed it just as much: my father.
After 28 painful years of a damaged relationship with the one man whose love I craved and desired the most, my many years of wandering and numerous homosexual encounters came abruptly to an end.
It happened one morning in my parents’ kitchen. My father and I did something we never really did before – we talked. We both dealt with the past, we vented, we questioned, we understood and we healed. And in an emotional embrace I’ll never forget, we both did something else: We forgave. I have never been the same man since.
In a single moment of time, the doors to my painful childhood were slammed shut once and for all, never to be opened again. My homosexual needs and desires were gone and I was changed. Completely. My heavenly Father showed me by example what I needed to give to my earthly father. I crossed that fearful heterosexual threshold that so many other brave men and women in my shoes have done before me. And in doing so, I found something I never could have imagined – the cure for homosexuality. Forgiveness.
Our acceptance and tolerance of the ever-growing homosexual deviancy in America today is really a paradox. You see, we are actually committing a grave injustice toward these misled men and women. We’re not helping these people by affirming them, but actually hurting them even further. By enabling them to remain emotionally stunted and trapped in their pasts, we as a society play a major part in keeping them from their potential futures. And according to the Bible, as a nation, our acceptance and tolerance of homosexuality will keep us from our potential future as well.
I’ve found the cure for homosexuality. Forgiveness. Share it with your “gay” and lesbian friends. Give them some food for thought.
No doubt I am on a mission today: to bring the truth about homosexuality to the world – that no one is born homosexual, it has everything to do with the childhood, and complete change is possible. Completely possible. From the calls that are coming in weekly around the country from homosexual men and women themselves, I can tell you, this message is making a major impact … one forgiving heart at a time.
Mar 17, 2009 at 4:21 am
The above is from: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/720747/posts
By JohnHuang2
Mar 17, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Homosexuality is an emotional so-called attraction to the same sex, seeking to fill that which can only be filled by reconciling with the root of the conflict within.
I understand why people say they were born that way. That rhetoric came about recently after years and decades of homosexuals being prosecuted. It is a defense. If they say there is no choice they have, (which is what it really feels like), then maybe people will be compassionate toward them. However, alcoholics feel like they have no choice- they can say they were born that way, so do drug addicts. These are also emotional problems– usually these people feel conflicted and uncared for. All of these individuals seek something outside of themselves to quench the issues within, finding no rest.